<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
I\u2019m Muriel Wilkins, and this is Coaching Real Leaders, part of the HBR podcast network. I\u2019m a longtime executive coach who works with highly successful leaders who\u2019ve hit a bump in the road. My job is to help them get over that bump by clarifying their goals and figuring out a way to reach them, so that hopefully they can lead with a little more ease. I typically work with clients over the course of several months, but on this show, we have a one-time coaching meeting focusing on a specific leadership challenge they\u2019re facing. Today\u2019s guest is someone we\u2019ll call Jada to protect her confidentiality. She\u2019s experienced positive career momentum in the past, frequently getting promotions and advancing through the ranks.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I really learned out of that that I love people. My soft skills seem to be something that gets me into places and rooms. I was promoted pretty often and quickly in the beginning of those stages and got to learn even more about what I was good at, what I wasn\u2019t good at, what I liked, what I didn\u2019t like.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
While she was proud of her achievements, Jada also recognized that there were things about the industry she started her career in that she didn\u2019t like as much, that weren\u2019t really aligned with her values, and so she transitioned to the tech sector, where she could focus on strategy and big picture planning, among other things. But making that switch also came with some downsides.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I knew that changing industries would potentially involve moving backwards to move forward. So, that has happened, and I was okay with that. I was a little disappointed that the growth that I saw previously in my old industry hasn\u2019t been happening as quickly as it has been in this one, but generally, I\u2019m loving the work. I find it extremely challenging. I love a challenge. I\u2019m getting to a place now where it\u2019s feeling a little less challenging and more comfortable, and I would like to get back into a space where I\u2019m on my toes.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Jada\u2019s hoping to get back on the promotion track and managing teams. In order to do that, I started by asking a bit more about the slower career growth she\u2019s experiencing and what she thinks might be behind it.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve asked for feedback about this from direct managers, from managers in other parts of the company who still see my work. And from my immediate managers, I get told that I need to work on my visibility. It\u2019s really shocked me because we had a change in leadership, and I went to my new manager and asked them for some feedback on what I could be doing to grow, and they said visibility also. And I was like, \u201cWow, this is really interesting.\u201d Because the old manager and the new manager never spoke to each other. I don\u2019t think they had any notes they compared about me.<\/p>\n
And what I couldn\u2019t help thinking about was in my previous industry, the feedback that I often got there was around executive presence. Back then, I attributed the executive presence with being young, looking young, but now in my new industry, I\u2019m usually one of the older people in the room. And it\u2019s just really interesting to have seen across two different spaces how I\u2019ve gotten feedback that\u2019s related more to other people\u2019s perception of me and not really about my performance and work.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, what do you make of that? You said it\u2019s interesting that across two spaces, you\u2019ve gotten feedback based on the perception of you rather than the actuality of your work. How does that land with you?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
So, I have two different thoughts on this, and I\u2019m not sure where to land. One is it\u2019s absolutely right, and I\u2019m the problem, and I\u2019ve got to figure out how to fix this thing and address it. But more recently, I\u2019m doubting that the visibility is the real feedback that I need to hear. I believe I\u2019m pretty active in my company. I am visible in my company; people see me. I\u2019m very engaged. I\u2019m in lots of different groups. One of the things recently that I\u2019ve been trying to work on is a little more self-promoting, but I am very visible. So, I\u2019m not sure if maybe I\u2019m understanding visibility incorrectly, or is it that the managers are not giving me the real feedback that I need to hear.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
All right. And so, is that while you\u2019re sitting here?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
It is.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, let me just make sure that I\u2019ve heard you correct in terms of everything that\u2019s happened. It sounds like in the past setting that you were, or organizations that you were, the promotions came fast and furious, and even though you did get feedback on your executive presence, you still were advanced. Fast forward, you\u2019ve transitioned to a new space, a new sector, you feel like you\u2019re doing the work, and you are being seen, or you\u2019re out there, you\u2019re active within the organization, and yet the promotions are not happening as quickly. And you feel like the feedback you\u2019ve gotten from two data points are around your visibility.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
That\u2019s correct.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, are you attributing the lack of promotion to this visibility aspect?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Mostly, that\u2019s all I know. If I\u2019m going off of what I\u2019m being told, that is the constant\u2026 I haven\u2019t gotten any real feedback about any other areas of my work that seem to be holding me back. So, I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s anything else.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Understood. And so, let me just\u2026 Because it\u2019s important that we understand what is in your control and what is out of your control. And so, when you say the promotions are not happening as quickly, what are you comparing that to?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I\u2019m comparing it to other employees who joins the company when I did or even after who have less experience in certain avenues than I have.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, you are comparing it to internal candidates, not comparing it to how quickly you were getting promoted in a different sector or a different organization?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Nope.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
That\u2019s an important data point to understand to make sure that we\u2019re looking at it within the context that you\u2019re in. And then when they say visibility to you, how do you define what visibility is?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
For me, visibility was ensuring that when we have company-wide events, that I get an opportunity to present, or if we are in virtual sessions, that I am contributing in our sessions. We have other means of communicating, and I ensure that I am asking questions, I\u2019m praising other people. I am telling stories from our customers. That to me was what visibility would be about.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, when you now think about you doing all those things and then getting feedback about you need to be more visible, have you thought about what else visibility might mean or what else it could incorporate?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I did do some thinking on that. That\u2019s where the idea of\u2026 I hate the word \u201cSelf-promoting,\u201d but I thought that it was maybe important to ensure that the visibility that I have is showing not just me being out there, but how does the work that I do impact the company. And so, I\u2019ve done a little bit more of filtering the visibility I have. I\u2019m often known in our company as a culture person when there\u2019s something fun to do, \u201cLet\u2019s tap her. She can get everybody to have fun and engaged.\u201d And so, I\u2019ve been saying no to some of those opportunities and ensuring that anything that I say yes to are places where I can say \u201cI did this,\u201d and the impact on the company was. That\u2019s been a little more recent, but it is one thought I had on how I could do a little better with this visibility.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Look, that that is a part of it. Because visibility for the sake of visibility is just showing up, as you put it, being out there. And it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, but being out there for what?\u201d And is the way that you\u2019re out there relevant to those who ultimately need to be impacted by that visibility or who matter in terms of what your goal is, which is to advance. So, when you think about making your visibility matter, making it relevant, think about it in terms of\u2026<\/p>\n
Well, this is the thought that\u2019s coming to mind. It\u2019s like when you scroll through social media and you get ads and you\u2019re like, \u201cWhy is this in my feed?\u201d It\u2019s visible, but it\u2019s not relevant. And then you get the one that you\u2019re like, \u201cOh yeah, how did they even know that I was thinking that? Were they listening to the conversation that I was having with my friend literally 10 minutes ago?\u201d So relevant. And so, when you think about it that way, that\u2019s the relevancy. And my question to you is, what would be the algorithm that you would need to have to be able to be relevant to those stakeholders?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Our company obviously has a vision, a mission. We have our company goals. That maybe\u2026 Most recently, the visibility that I\u2019ve been trying to do that was intentionally aligned with impact to the company has been a little more aligned to our mission and vision. And maybe I could do some more strategic intentional visibility work around company goals and ensuring that the people who can make the decisions of my promotions, of my growth, of my development, that my visibility is aligned with the things that are important to them, and maybe not what I assumed it to be.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, there\u2019s this dissonance between potentially between what you assume is important and what is actually important. And I don\u2019t know what is, because those stakeholders are not sitting here with us, and I don\u2019t get a chance to speak to them in this situation, but do you have a sense of what\u2019s important to them? What keeps them up at night?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yes, I have unique insight into that because I\u2019m an extrovert at work, and I have no problem just scheduling a meeting with someone and talking to them about, \u201cSo, tell me what keeps you up at night?\u201d And I have a lot of insight from our directors and MVPs on what is a priority to them, particularly, and not just for their team or what\u2019s being spoken to the company. So, I do know we have some product changes that are going on, and I know making sure those get rolled out smoothly is top of mind for them. A few things like that.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
It would be critical to figure out what is on their critical path to ensure that you are on that path. The question is\u2026 Again, you\u2019re visible. You\u2019re visible on a particular path, but is that the critical path? And that\u2019s part of what you have to find out, and what you have at your disposal is you said, it sounds like you have the wherewithal to go and talk to folks and ask the questions. It\u2019s more a matter of what are the questions that you should be asking. And so, in this case, if you were to sit down with, and we\u2019ll talk about the stakeholders soon, but if you were to sit down with some of these folks, what would be the questions that you would ask that you haven\u2019t yet asked that would give you more clarity around how you make your visibility relevant?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
So, it\u2019s funny that you ask the question about, \u201cWhat keeps you up at night?\u201d Because that is one of the questions I often ask them, but maybe recently I was reading about prioritizing time and resources and I was fumbling around with the question of \u201cIf you could devote 10% more of your resources, whether that\u2019s time, personnel, budget, to another project that\u2019s going on, what would that project be?\u201d<\/p>\n
I am very curious to know where would they love to spend more time and more resources that aren\u2019t getting that that might be something that bubbles up into what is a priority for them. I don\u2019t think asking them about where they\u2019re spending their time now necessarily gives me insight into their priorities because I think whatever\u2019s on fire is usually getting more of your time than what a priority might be.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, in terms of what questions to ask, you can be at the macro level, which is \u201cWhat keeps you up at night?\u201d And then there are more granular zooming in micro questions, which are these project-oriented, what\u2026 Very tactical, \u201cWhat saves you time?\u201d Et cetera. And there\u2019s probably a whole range in between, but what is clear is that even in asking them, you want to frame it in a way where you can walk away with understanding what has the most weight, what is most important, what is causing the most heartburn, so that if there is an opportunity for you to focus and contribute to relieving that heartburn, then that makes it relevant.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I like that.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Either relieving the heartburn because you\u2019re problem-solving and taking it away, or you\u2019re being opportunistic and you\u2019re creating value in a way that then relieves whatever the challenges are, if that makes sense.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
It does. I do think I could take advantage better of my time in these chats with other people by asking better questions. More of my intention with those meetings previously had been for people to see me, for me to get an opportunity to talk about what I was doing, build relationships, but investing a little bit more into those other people, and asking the good questions will be really helpful.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
While it might feel like semantics, being clear about what we mean is really useful when working through a challenge. In Jada\u2019s case, she used the word visibility and was struggling to understand what her managers meant by it, but I wasn\u2019t quite sure how she defined it for herself either. And using my own definition wouldn\u2019t be helpful. I have to meet her where she is. When you think of a term like visibility, it can mean different things to different people. For some it can simply mean speaking in meetings and joining groups at the organization, or you can expand your definition of visibility to being seen as doing what leadership and the company views as most valuable in the current context.<\/p>\n
As in Jada\u2019s case, sometimes there\u2019s a mismatch between what you may be doing, how you\u2019re defining success, and how others might be defining it. Getting specific about what those differences are is really useful before moving to problem-solving. It\u2019s a good sign that Jada is already taking the initiative and trying to have conversations with leaders at her organization. So, the question is whether she\u2019s leveraging those conversations to better inform her as to what leaders are really looking for. Those conversations need to be focused. And so, I wanted to zero in on how relevant she\u2019s positioning herself in those discussions. Let\u2019s jump back in as she explains what her approach has been in these discussions, what she\u2019s been talking about, and with who?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I have been aiming for people that are outside of our department, just some cross teams that I don\u2019t always have the need to work with very often. I fought at the time that being a mile wide versus an inch deep was a smarter strategy, but now, talking to you, I\u2019m questioning that maybe I should be spending more time with the people in my team versus other departments who have less to do with my growth and development. Those are probably people who would be advocates or sponsors. And while it is helpful to talk to them, I don\u2019t know that it\u2019s immediately helping me with this issue.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
All right. So, that\u2019s a great distinction. It\u2019s like, how deep do you go? If you think about it as a T model, there\u2019s the vertical, which is \u201cI\u2019m going to have deep visibility internally in my world, on my team, in my group, in my division.\u201d And then the top part of the T, the horizontal part, is \u201cI\u2019m going to go broad across the organization so that people know me.\u201d And there are clearly benefits to both. And so, part of what you\u2019re saying is you\u2019ve been focused more on the horizontal in terms of the breadth. And has that come\u2026 Let me just ask you for clarity for me, has that come at the expense of the depth within your group, the vertical within your group?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
100%, yes.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And has it come at an expense vertically, downward? Meaning people more junior than you, or people more senior than you, or both?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I would say I\u2019m generally more senior.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
You have done more senior?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Got it. So, in what way has it been at the expense of downstream vertically within your team?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Vertically, downward. People see what I\u2019m doing broadly, and that has probably been why I\u2019ve gained more of a reputation for being the strong culture person. They see me bringing together people from across teams versus maybe being more strategically minded, working on our internal projects. I do some of that work, but I don\u2019t know that people see me as the expert on those things. And so, that\u2019s how it has taken me away from that type of visibility.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, there\u2019s a part of you\u2019re known. You\u2019re known as a culture carrier, you\u2019re known as a good person. I\u2019m just going to label it as that, and I\u2019m just going to push it. You react to what I\u2019m saying. Do you imagine that there\u2019s a question around, \u201cBut what does she really do?\u201d or \u201cWhat does she really deliver?\u201d<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
There\u2019s the potential for that being true.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, part of it is as you\u2019re building your story and your narrative and giving it this visibility piece to it, there is\u2026 Of course, you want to be known, but then there\u2019s \u201cWhat do you want to be known for?\u201d And I haven\u2019t quite heard from you. It sounds like you\u2019re known as the culture carrier, but what I haven\u2019t heard is, is that what you want to be known for? And does the person who\u2019s known primarily as the culture carrier within your organization, is that the currency that gets them advanced?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
It is not the currency that gets them advanced. I do enjoy some of that culture work, but at the end of the day, I know for promotions and advancements that unless there\u2019s a culture problem, that is not going to be anything that\u2019s particularly helpful for me.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, what do you want to be known for? What do you want to be known for? And then what do you think you need to be known for to be advanced? Which are two different questions.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I\u2019m going to start with what I think I need to be known for, which is being a strategic thinker, adding value and impact to the company, which is going to\u2026 At the end of the day be, \u201cHow do I make the company more money?\u201d What I want to be known for? I want to be known for being a great team player, someone who is easy to work with, who\u2019s a great brainstormer, who brings innovative ideas, who works well with others, really, at the end of the day.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, what would it look like for you to be known for both?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
That\u2019s a great question. It would have to do with working on projects with people from within my division and maybe leading those projects from time to time, but really being a great collaborative person on those and making sure that the projects are the strategic ones. And we do a lot of project work internally, and many times those can be things that you\u2019re working on individually, and maybe me looking for more opportunities for the projects that involve working on a team.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
All right. And so, when you think about that as the potential path to get you more visibility in a way that\u2019s relevant, that you are working collaboratively on projects that have that strong strategic element to them, what is the difference between doing that and what you are currently or have been doing?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I would say I\u2019ve done some group team project work. It has not been considered the type of things that are strategic that are impactful business-wise for the company. The work that I would have to do to get on those types of projects is let people know I\u2019m looking for that. Sometimes those projects exist, and people get assigned to do those types of things because the director needs this done and puts together a group of people. It\u2019s not necessarily asked widely, \u201cHey, we have this project, who wants to volunteer?\u201d And it seems like maybe the broad work that I have been doing is more of \u201cWho wants to volunteer to do this?\u201d And I need to be one of those people who get picked to work on these.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Who gets selected?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
All right. So, if the visibility that you need to attain, if we were to measure it, come back a year from now and say, \u201cOne of the measures of success for this visibility is that you are now selected for some of these projects.\u201d What would you need to be doing differently in terms of your visibility? Because again, you are doing things to be visible. I just don\u2019t think it\u2019s getting you what you want. So, how would your visibility need to look and feel different in order for us to be able to visibly see an uptick in you being selected or increase the probability of you being selected for these types of projects?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
So, right away, I\u2019m thinking I can continue to have those meetings with senior people in the company, but I need to maybe focus those on the people within my division. When I ask better questions during this time with them, yes, the question should be figuring out what their priorities are, but also considering how can this be something that I\u2019m working on? Even asking them, \u201cHave you thought of putting together a group to work on this thing? I would love to be a part of that.\u201d I have to let them know I can\u2019t expect them to read my mind and just put me on projects. The first and foremost thing is letting them know this is the type of thing I want to be doing.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
That\u2019s right. So, A, you\u2019ve got to let them know why you\u2019re even there. Why are you visible in front of them? What is it that you want? And so, that\u2019s making the ask and making it clear what it is that you\u2019re hoping for. The second is, would it be clear to them what value you would be bringing by them bringing you on one of these projects?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
No, I don\u2019t think that it is always clear, especially when I\u2019m talking to people who don\u2019t directly manage me, so they don\u2019t see what my strengths are in my work. They don\u2019t know my work at all sometimes, so I can\u2019t expect them to know what value I would bring.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, when we don\u2019t know the value that we\u2019re bringing and we\u2019re not articulating it, what it feels like in those conversations, even when we\u2019re making an ask, is, \u201cOh, here\u2019s what you manager\u2026\u201d Let\u2019s say, \u201cLeader can offer me.\u201d But we\u2019re not really responding to what do I have to offer, even if not asked, \u201cWhat do I have to offer the manager?\u201d And particularly, in an element like what you described, which is it\u2019s a staffing issue. You want to be picked. Well, what are they picking you for? You pick something because you believe it has something to offer you.<\/p>\n
And when you think about some of these folks that you have to deal with, what is important to them? Think about being in their shoes when they have to select somebody to work on these strategic projects. If you were in their shoes, what would those individuals need to be able to offer and bring to the table to make them pickable?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I\u2019m really interested in actually finding that out, maybe in these chats moving forward. I\u2019m curious to know if our leadership puts together teams based on product knowledge or are they also looking for someone who works well with others, which was important to me, but if that\u2019s not what they need for their teams, then I will need to sell the value of having me on the team a little differently.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And part of what you might want to explore, Jada, is not necessarily that it\u2019s mutually exclusive, right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Because I\u2019m hearing you say, \u201cIf what they don\u2019t want is the collaboration and the getting along with other people and working well with them\u2026\u201d Which are all the things that you have as strengths, \u201cThen maybe I\u2019ve been off all along.\u201d And what I\u2019m suggesting is it\u2019s not that those things are not valued, is are they the things that actually get you in the door. Think about going to a concert. \u201cI\u2019m going to go to the Beyonc\u00e9 concert in a few weeks.\u201d So, it\u2019s top of mind. What gets me in the door is the ticket. And then once I\u2019m there, I can offer all the other\u2026 Well, offer\u2026 I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m there to offer, but I can do all the other things. I can dance and sing and have a good time, but if I don\u2019t have a ticket to get in, I\u2019m not going to be inside that concert. I\u2019ll be watching the videos on Instagram.<\/p>\n
So, what is the ticket of entry? What is\u2026 For me, the ticket to entry is its actual cash currency. And that\u2019s why I keep coming down to \u201cOkay, what\u2019s the currency that you bring?\u201d Is it, \u201cI need somebody who can really deliver, somebody who I don\u2019t have to worry about them doing the work?\u201d Is it the expertise, as you put it? Is it\u2026 What is that actual ticket to entry that makes one more prone to being selected in these types of projects versus not? And I think that\u2019s the part that you have to hone in on.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I agree with you, and I may have made some assumptions early on about what that ticket was, and I have not asked directly to anyone about what that ticket is.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
What\u2019s the assumption that you made?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Some of those things that I want to be known for, like being a great team player, and getting along with others, and being good at brainstorming and supporting people, were what the leaders wanted in creating these teams. And maybe there was even a little assumption that the leadership thought I knew what the ticket was, and I might need to get some clarity on that.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And it might be that all of those things they actually do want, it\u2019s just not what is most important. And as much as I\u2019m not a believer in, or I don\u2019t encourage people to say, \u201cOh, well, look at what everybody else is doing, what are they doing?\u201d And do the same thing. I would never say that. That said, there is something to be learned by others\u2019 experiences, not so much around, \u201cOh, I need to be doing exactly what they\u2019re doing.\u201d But to give you a sense of, \u201cWell, what am I seeing? What\u2019s the hypothesis around what the currency is here?\u201d So, that then I can make an informed decision as to whether that\u2019s the type of currency that I want to be involved in? You know what I\u2019m saying?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
I just had to send some graduation gifts to my kid\u2019s friends, and I reached out and I said, \u201cOkay, I want to send you a gift.\u201d \u201cWhat is it?\u201d Someone said, \u201cCash App.\u201d \u201cI don\u2019t do Cash App.\u201d You got to choose a different currency, right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
If you want the gift, if you don\u2019t, then\u2026 So, it\u2019s not a right or wrong, but you then make an informed decision. So, I say all that to say, when you look, you mention that there are other people in your organization who joined at the same time or later than you, who tend to not necessarily just get promoted, because now we\u2019ve peeled the onion back, get selected for these types of projects that provide them with the visibility to then position them to get promoted, increase the probability of being promoted. What is it that you\u2019re seeing as their currency, if anything, at this point, that you believe is different than what you lead with in terms of currency?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
So, one of the things off the top of my head that they often have in common are being very detail-oriented, great eye for the small things, for gaps in processes, for a what-if scenario that nobody had thought of. They\u2019re really great at those very detailed things, where I tend to be much more big picture. They\u2019re also extremely organized and pretty organized. I don\u2019t think that\u2019s a big deal. They work well independently, very consistent with their work, and great product knowledge also.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, I want you to imagine for a minute, it\u2019s five years from now. Not even five years, so let\u2019s be a little more aggressive. Three years from now, and you are running one of these projects. You have gotten promoted, you\u2019re now the person selecting, you\u2019re staffing these projects, you\u2019re picking who\u2019s going to be on. And the people that you\u2019re picking are exactly as you\u2019ve described: detail-oriented, they can run through the what-ifs, they have strong expertise, they\u2019re organized. What would make you pick those individuals? Who are leading with that? And who, by the way, can also work well with other people, but they\u2019re leading with this other stuff. Majoring in that, minoring on the collaboration versus the person who\u2019s majoring in the collaboration, minoring on all the things that you just listed? What would be your rationale for picking one versus the other?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I would go with the detail-oriented people for my team, because I know the work is going to get done.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
You got it. So, you just figured out what is relevant. You just figured out what is relevant. The price of admission is giving the sense for getting on these projects and these assignments, that they have full confidence that you\u2019re going to get the job done. And what I wonder\u2026 I have no idea, Jada. I don\u2019t get the sense that you can\u2019t do the job. The sense that I get right now is\u2026 Or I\u2019m curious about, is you haven\u2019t been leading with that as your brand. And so, while the culture carrier piece is really great and helpful, it\u2019s not necessarily what\u2019s going to make the manager or leader, whoever\u2019s leading these projects, at 1:00 in the morning, go to sleep because they know the job\u2019s getting done.<\/p>\n
It reminds me, when I was in consulting, a newly minted consultant fresh out of business school a long time ago, one of the partners sat me down and said, \u201cYou know, one day you\u2019re going to make a great partner, because you\u2019re so good at building relationships with the clients, and you\u2019re really good at seeing the big picture and thinking strategically, and speaking on your feet.\u201d And I got so\u2026 I was like, \u201cOh my gosh, I\u2019m going to get promoted early, right?\u201d And then he said, \u201cBut for now, what I need you to do is be able to crank through a spreadsheet and pull together a PowerPoint deck,\u201d Because that was the currency for where I was.<\/p>\n
And what he was basically saying is, \u201cThose things are great, don\u2019t lose them, but they\u2019re not what make you relevant right now for where you are in your career, in terms of what I need in terms of leading this client engagement. If you can get those things done, it will open up the opportunities for you to be able to do all this other big stuff that you want to do. So, don\u2019t lose it, but you got to be able to get past the initial entry points.\u201d<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
So, it feels like part of the brands that I need to be building is how do I ensure that people see me, not just as the culture person, but as reliable, as consistent, and my visibility needs to be about how I was reliable, how I was consistent, how I pulled through and got the project done is feeling very right as I\u2019m saying it.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
In this conversation, Jada has now reached a point where she can start to differentiate between what she had assumed was important to leadership at her organization and what stakeholders might actually be looking for. Some of that will be informed by future conversations, but simply understanding the current mismatch is a step forward for Jada in her career. To get on a different track, Jada needs to focus her energy in the right places. First, by understanding the currency of the organization, and then developing a plan to gain more of that currency to advance her career.<\/p>\n
One way to effectively do that is to not just have conversations, but to really put yourself in the shoes of those you\u2019re looking to for opportunity and figure out what their needs are and what they\u2019re looking for. Let\u2019s dive back in as we start to refine what Jada should be demonstrating, if she wants to truly address the feedback that she needs to be more visible. When you think about leadership, there\u2019s two aspects of it. There\u2019s the\u2026 I\u2019m going to keep it very crass\u2026 But there\u2019s the task orientation, the getting stuff done, getting results. And there\u2019s the relational orientation, which is all about the people, and collaboration, and working well with others, et cetera. The sweet spot is being able to do both.<\/p>\n
And there are times when you may need to lead more with one versus the other, because you\u2019ve been leading so much with one versus the other. It needs to be balanced out. One can\u2019t come at the sacrifice of the other. And again, I don\u2019t know the culture of your organization, but based on what you\u2019ve shared, it sounds to me like what\u2019s valued, at least as priority number one, is the task orientation, and then the relational piece is the icing on the cake.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I would agree with that, yes.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, you just can\u2019t be icing.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Wow, we went from visibility to\u2026<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Icing. And let me just say, some people just like icing and no cake. So, part of your question also needs to be, \u201cAt some point, maybe I need to be in an environment where it is all about the icing. And the cake is just a little bit of cake.\u201d<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve thought about that from time to time. If the work that I do is my strengths, the things that I enjoy doing the most. Is my job currently now allowing me to lean into those things?<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Well, look, you work long enough. You\u2019re going to have situations where you can use your strengths 100% of the time, and then it\u2019s like, \u201cUgh, I\u2019m not using them enough.\u201d The key is you don\u2019t want your weaknesses to overshadow your strengths, right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
That\u2019s what you hear a lot of people say, \u201cDon\u2019t let your weaknesses overshadow your strengths.\u201d Yes, and you don\u2019t want to focus so much on your strengths that it\u2019s neglecting some other aspects that are necessary for the work, or in your case, for advancement. The question is, are you able to use your strengths enough that it satisfies you? That it gives you that sense of fulfillment, and reflects the strengths that you have? Does that need to be 100% of the time?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
No. Definitely not. And I do feel most days that the work that I\u2019m doing allows me to lean into my strengths, and at the end of the day, I like my job. I don\u2019t get the Sunday scaries at all or anything like that. I feel adequately challenged. But I need to grow in this area in order to get where I want to go.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And going back to your original question, it\u2019s making sure that your visibility reflects that you have these different facets to offer, not just this one aspect of who you are.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I can do that.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
You can do that?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
All right. So, tell me what your assignment is?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
A few things. Not in any particular order, but number one, ensure that the meetings that I have with more senior people in the company are maybe a little more focused to my division. Number two, start asking better questions about the things that they\u2019re prioritizing. Number three, let them know that I want to work on projects and ensure that I communicate what value I can add to those projects, and also ensure that the visibility that I am putting out there is focused on how I\u2019m reliable, how I get things done, and look for ways where I can potentially bring some of that culture into the strategic work that we\u2019re doing. I don\u2019t think I need to abandon that part of me completely, but they can work together.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t think you need to abandon it at all. This is additive. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s subtractive. You\u2019re growing the pie in terms of the value that you bring, rather than it being a zero-sum game. It\u2019s one or the other, or it diminishes what you bring. And so, what do you think would get in the way of you being able to fulfill your assignment?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Being scared. Being scared of being out of my comfort zone. I need to maybe spend some time thinking about the places where I have been consistent and reliable and got things done, so that when I present what value I can bring to the projects, I have things that I can name specifically. And those two things most immediately, and then also just making sure that I get to ask those better questions. I need to practice that.<\/p>\n
So, that I don\u2019t\u2026 A word that I kept saying in the beginning of this was that I was making a lot of assumptions. And I want to make sure that when I have these conversations with our senior leadership about their priorities, that they\u2019re very clear about what those priorities are, and I don\u2019t make assumptions about what they are, just so that I can ensure that I am aligned with what they\u2019re thinking.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, how do you think you could do that? Give me an example of a question you would ask where you are making assumptions versus one where you are either not, or clarifying, or trying to really understand.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Well, about something you asked me earlier in our conversation, you repeated back to me the scenario and asked me if that was accurate doing that with them. So, what I heard you say was\u2026 And let them tell me \u201cNo, that was wrong,\u201d or \u201cYes, you heard that correctly.\u201d Is one way to get things clarified.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
You just said it. It\u2019s how you frame it, and framing it in an open way where it\u2019s like, \u201cHey, this is exactly what you said, what I\u2019m hearing, but just clarify for me. I\u2019m kicking the tire. Is this what you\u2019re thinking?\u201d With an openness that it might be different than what you had originally thought. One of the things, Jada, I also want to make sure that we talk about a little bit is we\u2019ve been talking or discussing a lot about what you can do to provide yourself with visibility. In what ways are you leveraging others to give you visibility? Let\u2019s assume you do all the things that we just talked about, right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And so, your visibility is targeted and focused in the right way in terms of the message that it sends. Are you the sole voice, or what other voices do you have?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I would say that there are definitely people in the company who come to me and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou haven\u2019t been promoted yet?\u201d And they do their part to try to give me praise in certain places. Or I\u2019ll hear from my manager like, \u201cOh, I was in a conversation the other day and I heard your name brought up about blah, blah, blah,\u201d Which is lovely, but those people may not always be speaking about me or giving me visibility in the right channels. I don\u2019t want to come off as desperate, but I don\u2019t think there\u2019s anything wrong with saying to someone, \u201cHey, I would love for you to tell so-and-so about this project when you have time.\u201d It\u2019s okay to ask.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
That\u2019s not desperate. That\u2019s sponsorship.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Good point.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
That is exactly what sponsorship is. You\u2019re asking or attaining somebody who\u2019s willing to be an advocate on your behalf. And what most people fail to recognize is what they want is somebody who advocates when it\u2019s time for promotions. And I don\u2019t know, I always think the advocacy needs to start way before that. Get them to advocate on your behalf on smaller things, like \u201cOh, could you introduce me to this person? Could you see if I could get on that project? Could you call that manager? I\u2019m going to speak to them. But could you also give them a call and see if they could get me on?\u201d So, those are the smaller milestones that then can build up to the bigger one of, \u201cHey, when it\u2019s promotion time, could you speak on my behalf?\u201d<\/p>\n
And so, the first place is to identify who those folks are, and primarily it\u2019s who\u2019s within your circle already, who might already be mentoring you, perhaps, but now they are people who could sponsor you. And the difference is, they\u2019re not just saying, \u201cOh, I hear you didn\u2019t get that project. Oh, why not?\u201d They\u2019re saying, \u201cYou didn\u2019t get that project? Let\u2019s figure out how to get you on that project next time.\u201d<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I have sponsors in the company, but the problem is they are not within our division where I need to be seen, and I could do a better job of finding those people there.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Because sponsors, just for the sake of sponsors, doesn\u2019t matter. It\u2019s just like your visibility. They also need to have weight and relevance for what you\u2019re doing. If I am a musician, but my sponsor is somebody who\u2019s a sponsor in the athletic world, nice, but not really relevant, right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
So, you want to make sure that you have individuals who are sponsors who have weight within the context, or where it matters for you. Doesn\u2019t mean you get rid of the others. You need a diversified portfolio of sponsors, and you also need to make sure that you have some that are addressing the needs that you have now. And similarly, just like we talked about with your managers, they\u2019re going to want to know what value\u2026 What are they getting out of sponsoring you?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Good point. At the beginning of this conversation, I thought we were really going to go into a place where visibility was inaccurate feedback, and I\u2019m still not entirely sure that my previous managers meant visibility to the depth that we had a discussion about it today. But I am happy to hear that there\u2019s some value that I can take from that, when I didn\u2019t really believe it in the beginning.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
There you go with your little assumptions that might get in the way of being able to then say, \u201cOkay, well, what do I make out of this?\u201d Right?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
And look, it may be that what we talked about is not it. What we do know is that it\u2019s different than the path you are on, and so it\u2019s worth testing out as a hypothesis and going out there and seeing if it helps in terms of the visibility. And one of the things I would encourage you to do: those managers who told you, \u201cYou need to work on your visibility.\u201d<\/p>\n
You may want to go back to them and say, \u201cHey, I heard you. I heard your feedback. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m planning on doing. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m understanding where I need to increase my visibility. Here are the areas where I\u2019m already visible. Here\u2019s where I\u2019m not, and where I\u2019m not in this way, what do you make of that? Do you have anything else to add?\u201d So, have them provide input on this path that you\u2019re now going to bear out, because they might be able to get more explicit and more detailed around what they actually mean.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I agree with that. And I don\u2019t think it\u2019s awful to maybe ask them for help in getting on those projects and helping to get that visibility strategically that I need.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Absolutely. So, how do you feel now versus when we first got started?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Oh my gosh, lighter. I feel like I have clarity. I feel like I have work to do. I feel like I have a plan. I feel motivated also.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Good. Look, we all have work to do, but we don\u2019t all get motivated, so I\u2019m glad to hear that you are motivated because that\u2019s what will move that plan into action. Okay?<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Yeah.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
If anything, the worst-case scenario is you find out, \u201cNope, that\u2019s not what visibility is.\u201d And then it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s the next path?\u201d But there\u2019s some untested territory that would be worth your while to explore.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
I agree. If it doesn\u2019t work, I\u2019ll just ask you, \u201cWhat do we do next?\u201d<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
Exactly. Exactly. Blame it on the coach. Well, listen, Jada, thank you. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n
Jada:<\/p>\n
Thank you.<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
No matter where you are in your career, even up to the C-suite, visibility is important, and part of the key is understanding what visibility really means in your organization, to your leaders, even to your board, and adjusting your tactics to align with that definition. There are a few questions you can ask yourself to get you started. First, what kind of leadership qualities seem most in demand at your organization? Next, how much of those values line up with your skills and experience so far? Finally, are you presenting yourself as having those skills and thereby showing how you add value? It\u2019s all about making sure you are visible and relevant for the context that you\u2019re in. That\u2019s it for this episode of Coaching Real Leaders. Next time\u2026<\/p>\n
Speaker 3:<\/p>\n
I feel like I\u2019m at this point that I am in a very good position to really continue to be intentional, to build my long-term plan in the company I\u2019m at. I\u2019m about to have career growth conversations where I am, and I really want to pause and think of, \u201cOkay, what does that look like for me?\u201d<\/p>\n
Muriel Wilkins:<\/p>\n
If you love the conversations we have here on Coaching Real Leaders, you\u2019ll definitely want to check out my new book, Leadership Unblocked: Break Through the Beliefs That Limit Your Potential. You can order it now wherever you get your books, and if today\u2019s episode resonated with you, I\u2019d be so grateful if you\u2019d subscribe to the show, share it with a friend, or leave a five-star review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. It\u2019s one of the best ways to help others find the show. I\u2019d also love to stay connected. You can always find me at MurielWilkins.com, on LinkedIn at Muriel Wilkins, and on Instagram @coachmurielwilkins.<\/p>\n
A big thank you to my Producer, Mary Dooe; Sound Editor, Nick Crnko; Music Composer, Brian Campbell; my Chief of Staff, Emily Sofa; and the entire team at HBR. Much gratitude to the leaders who join me in these coaching conversations and to you, our listeners, who share in their journeys. From the HBR podcast network, I\u2019m Muriel Wilkins. Until next time, be well.<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n
#Address #Feedback #Increasing #Visibility<\/p>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Muriel Wilkins: I\u2019m Muriel Wilkins, and this is Coaching Real Leaders, part of the HBR podcast network. I\u2019m a longtime executive coach who works with highly successful leaders who\u2019ve hit a bump in the road. My job is to help them get over that bump by clarifying their goals and figuring out a way to […]<\/p>","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":3286,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3409","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-management"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\n